Interview With Slobodan Manić: About Pop-ups, WordPress Widget Plugins & Personalization

The web space is constantly evolving, changing the game's rules, and we at Claspo want to keep pace and help you do so. The proven way is to learn from the seasoned experts who navigate that web space effortlessly. That's why we jumped at the opportunity to talk with Slobodan (Sani) Manić. His 15 years of experience in web development and optimization, a successful podcast dedicated to great online experiences, and contribution to five major WordPress releases promise extremely valuable insights.

In the interview, we'll discuss the pitfalls of using pop-ups, take a behind-the-scenes look at WordPress and widget plugins, and explore what to consider before starting web personalization.

Pop-ups: Typical Pitfalls Worth Avoiding

1. You've worked a lot with email marketing and have expertise in CRO. I think you've encountered improvements in conversion rates for email pop-ups?

Slobodan: Most people will tell you pop-ups are annoying and that you shouldn’t use them if you don’t want to upset your users, but guess what, they work more often than not.

2. Are there any pop-up mechanics you would warn against? Why? 

Slobodan: If a user closes the pop-up, at the very least, don’t show them the pop-up for a few weeks and, ideally, never show them the pop-up again. Definitely don’t let it appear on every page load. Please don’t do that. The biggest reason is that it weakens your brand. If browsing your website is an annoying experience users are less likely to want to return.

3. What are the top possible issues you keep in mind when using pop-ups? (For example, “pop-ups annoy users and that may cause increase of bounce rate”)

Slobodan: Make absolutely 100% certain that there is no chance for two or more pop-ups (cookie banner included) to load at the same time. A user’s first experience with a website where multiple pop-ups are shown at the same time is something that is not easy to recover from.

4. What technical challenges have you faced with pop-ups in the past?

Slobodan: One common challenge was ensuring pop-ups didn’t negatively impact page load times. If your pop-up uses third-party assets, and those assets happen to be render-blocking, you’re asking for a disaster to happen.

5. How can one identify the biggest lever for improving the conversion of an email form? What do you test first? Share the sequence of areas for improvement.

Slobodan: The biggest mistake I’ve seen brands make is trusting the first version of their pop-up. They checked the box, the pop-up is live, they’re done with it. If your tool allows you to run an A/B test and you have enough traffic to validate your hypothesis, take advantage of it.
Depending on your form, some things that could be worth testing are:

• copy, especially of your heading, 
• images (with and without an image, then test the image itself), 
• soft-close link (“no, thank you” vs just the X icon).

And finally - mobile. Make sure the pop-up works as intended and offers a good mobile experience. It can’t simply be a smaller version of the desktop one.

WordPress: Ins and Outs to Keep in Mind

6. Since 2014, you've had extensive experience with WP, being a contributor. Why did you take on improving WP? 

Slobodan: I never really planned it, to be honest. WordPress being an open-source platform, it is all about giving back, and one way to do that is by being a contributor. So I figured, if I use the software, and develop websites, themes and plugins for it already, why not try to make the software itself better?

7. We're currently focused on integrating with WordPress, so we discuss with developers the problems they face installing conversion widgets (like contact forms, exit intent pop-ups, floating bars, sliders with promotions, promo codes, recommendations, etc.) on their sites. These problems include plugin incompatibility, customization limitations, negative impacts on site speed and search rankings, and poor mobile adaptation. Do you agree that such problems exist? 

Slobodan: 100% yes. A WordPress website is like a public pool. Usually, the water is clean, but it takes one person…

I had public plugins, both commercial and free, for several years, and the only thing I can say is good luck and to be patient with those support requests. If you have any WordPress plugins, it's a guarantee that you'll get support requests from unhappy customers claiming that "your plugin" does not work "with that other more popular plugin." And it could also be that this other plugin (or even theme) is breaking compatibility.

If you politely explain this to the user and help them work around the problem, they will appreciate it. It is not easy, but winning over an unhappy customer and helping them realize that it was that other plugin/theme that messed things up is rewarding.

8. Our developers said that this is often a reason within the site itself. What do you think about the impact on loading speed? How would you advise dealing with this? 

Slobodan: WordPress speed is not an issue unless you make it an issue. Out of the box, it's difficult to find a CMS that is faster than WordPress. Unfortunately, it's extremely easy to slow it down simply by installing the wrong plugins or plugins you don't really need.

Unreputable plugins or those not from the official WordPress or WooCommerce plugin repositories will always be a huge risk. You're adding hundreds or even thousands of lines of code to your website, and all that code has the potential to do a lot of damage.

9. What is the best way to install third-party widgets on a WP site - via a plugin or GTM?

Slobodan: It depends on what you are installing. If you're just adding something like a simple tracking script, GTM is good in most cases. If your widget depends on server-side functionality, you will almost certainly need a plugin to provide that functionality.

10. What trends would you identify in developing sites on WP?

Slobodan: One I am not crazy about is that WordPress seems to be moving towards being (or trying to be) a no-code platform. This is mainly because it feels like a forced move when WordPress tries to copy what its competitors are doing. It's not a bad thing on its own, but it also abandons what so many people loved about WordPress for so long—it is the exact opposite of these other platforms.

Yes, you can still write code and customize it, but that doesn't seem to be the main focus anymore. I'm sure there are people who love that, though.

Web Personalization: What to Know Before You Start?

11. When is it appropriate (business-wise) to implement personalization? How would you describe businesses that are premature in doing this, and what would you advise them to focus on instead?

Slobodan: No proper research done is premature. Learn about who you are personalizing for before you start doing it. Otherwise, you’re just trying to hack it.

12. What basic tactics would you highlight to start with? Which behavioral segments would you advise differentiating first? 

Slobodan: The answer, like many others in CRO is “it depends”. But if I had to blindly start somewhere it would probably be segmenting engaged and unengaged users. Then you figure out different segments within those two.

13. What trends would you identify in web experience personalization? Perhaps you've noticed some outstanding tools; please share if you can.

Slobodan: We are at a stage where the AI hype is greater than the AI possibilities, at least for most e-commerce stores. But if we’re talking about trends, it’s definitely the usage of AI, and I don’t see that changing soon. 

I really like what Made With Intent is doing. They take into account 200+ signals, and based on that, they determine how likely a conversion is for the user. Something like this allows you to talk to customers in different stages of their buying journey in different ways.